More and more frequently the edges
of me dissolve and I become
a wish to assimilate the world, including
you, if possible through the skin
like a cool plant’s tricks with oxygen
and live by a harmless green burning
(Margaret Atwood, More and more)
As you may or may not have realized, I tend not to talk about published science here. Frankly, wittering about research isn’t exactly thrilling, and by the time I get around to it lots of nice people have already covered it anyway. Besides, these days I get paid to do it, which actually is rather nice. No, I’d much rather talk about the human side of being a scientist, or sciencey stuff as it affects me or other people. I tend to waffle a bit.
But I saw a paper today that is begging to be blogged. It’s not peer-reviewed research though so don’t run away screaming just yet.
‘Not peer-reviewed?’ I hear you gasp, ‘What manner of madness is this?’ Settle down. We’re talking Nature Precedings: which as far as I can tell is somewhere you can publish any old preliminary crap and not worry about it affecting your chances of publishing in Science. So, on to
Artificial Photosynthesis Would Unify the Electricity-Carbohydrate-Hydrogen Cycle for Sustainability .
Dr Yi-Heng Percival Zhang proposes linking electricity, carbohydrate and hydrogen in a cycle that would simultaneously solve the CO2 and energy resource problems. And world hunger, too. Essentially it’s synthetic photosynthesis, fixing CO2 using electricity from whatever source we care to name:
8 CO2 (g) + 8 H2O (l) + electricity -> C6H10O5 (s) + C2H6O (l) + 9 O2 (g)
Or, more poetically,
like an insect caught by a spider, it is separated from its oxygen, combined with hydrogen and […] inserted in a chain
(Primo Levi, The Periodic Table)
Nailed there, not by a flashing form of a packet of light, but by man-made engines of electrosynthesis.
Pretty cool, if it’ll work. It reminds me of an idea I had for making biodiesel from any suitable green plant. You see, the problem with biodiesel is you’re still cutting down rainforest to grow it. So, I reasoned, why not convert off-shore oil platforms into rapeseed or palm plantations, thus freeing up valuable land in developed countries, saving the rainforest and simultaneously converting everyone to biodiesel (just don’t get me started about ethanol fuels in cars. Brr). There are of course problems with this approach, but I reckon you might make a worse start than using those same platforms for the good Dr Yi-Heng’s idea.
This does remind me of another thought I had, related to the one about letting Jenny tattoo me with GFP. While photosynthesizing ex-oil platforms might be impractical, I reckon crowd-sourcing has much more potential. Theoretically we should be able to engineer skin cells to convert the sun’s energy and all that excess CO2 we have knocking around into sugar. I mean, we know the process, right?
Even as we speak, BlackKnight Industries scientists are toiling in their labs to produce prototype skin grafts, after which they will transfect adult stem cells with appropriate genes. Our plan is to give volunteers in sunny climes (which, coincidentally, tend to be the poorest nations of the world) one, maybe even two, photosynthetic arms. While these lucky individuals go about their daily business, these Synth-O-Arms (r) will silently convert CO2 into carbohydrate, which will be fed directly into the bloodstream. After the initial trials we’ll start modifying entire populations.
Imagine: solving global warming and world hunger at a stroke. I’m just wishing I thought of publishing the idea in Precedings.
By the way, while looking up the URL for Medical Hypotheses I came across the wikipedia talk page. Well worth looking at for a giggle.
Have BlackKnight Industries started on working out how to convert the carbohydrates into alcohol, before they leave the body?
{scribbles furiously}
They have now.
The top of the head might be a more effective photosynthetic site, especially amongst balding men.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…
I guess, Jenny, we could shave the volunteers.
Hey, I wonder if this would also reduce sunburn and skin cancer?
Oh! cross with Jenny.
Continuous:
{scribbles furiously}
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha,Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, HaHa, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…… …
So you know how the first couple of lines of each new blog post show up on the main blogs page? And there’s no formatting, so you can’t distinguish the blogger’s own words from, say, a quoted poem?
I read “More and more frequently the edges of me dissolve and I become a wish to assimilate the world, including you, if possible through the skin…” under your photo and had to click through immediately to find out what the hell you were smoking.
Do you want some?
Well, duh
Best get over here then.
I wonder if MT4/OpenSocial will fix that? It’s now “the end of next week”.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha,Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, HaHa, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha…… …
¡Hey!, Ricardo, do not make me laugh but I had to go to the bathroom.
I think someone should fetch Alejandro a glass of water.
Who’s closest?
Um, probably me? (On this thread, anyway)
Yes.
Anyway, back to the more serious matters. Bob’s idea of converting the sugar to alcohol has potential merit. We could use that alcohol as fuel. That sticks the carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere of course, but then we pull it out again at the source.
Perfect.
Thank you! Cath, I’m so sorry, but I was amused.
Sometimes one in turn is that instead of starting to read the blog, I’ve initiating reading the comments with ahead and I was amused the conversation between Bob and Richard, that’s all.
Our plan is to give volunteers in sunny climes (which, coincidentally, tend to be the poorest nations of the world) one, maybe even two, photosynthetic arms
I volunteer! South Texas is not a “poorest nation” (_Ed. Though an argument could be made …._), but it is very sunny most of the time. Also, I need to replace my high melanoma-risk skin anyway, so I might as well photosynthesize at the same time. An added bonus is that I would no longer have to feel so ecologically guilty and unsustainable about having a refrigerator and air conditioning and a car.
Ethanol fuels are not a sustainable option in the US – (one) problem is insufficient water to grow the best crops for that purpose. But many people assume that somehow they’re better for the environment.
Alejandro, the comments here are often better than the posts themselves. You’ve realized this.
Fantastic, Kristi. BlackKnight Industries agents will be knocking
you upon your door early one morning soon.Your point about ethanol fuels is well made. People also don’t seem to realize that they’re less energy-rich than fossil fuels. Hmm.
Yuu’ll need to build in the option to make the alcohol drinkable – no need to spend £3.50 on that Friday pint.
I was thinking about that, Jenny. Do we want to feed the alcohol directly back into the bloodstream, or rig up some kind of stillsuit-type contraption?
I was assuming that Bob meant for the alcohol to be fed directly into the bloodstream. Think of the ecological impact! No more water-intensive crops like grapes, barley, hops; no more long-distance transportation of liquids!
We’re talking Nature Precedings: which as far as I can tell is somewhere you can publish any old preliminary crap and not worry about it affecting your chances of publishing in Science
I disagree with you, but have read very good and excellent papers in evolution for example, worthy of Nature. I think maybe you’ve read lightly, thinking you’ve chosen a good job. In any case could not give an opinion of it, since I have not read. But well worth the discussion.
Heh—Alejandro, unfortunately you missed my attempt at tongue-in-cheek humour, there.
Cath, that’s brilliant if
you’re Scottishyou just want to get pished, but some of us like to taste our martini.No more water-intensive crops like grapes, barley, hops; no more long-distance transportation of liquids
Cath, and no need for the goody taste of it all either 😉 duh.
Richard and Åsa, oh I quite agree. The more hops the better, IMO. But you can’t deny that Bob’s idea would be more efficient and eco-friendly 🙂
Can’t deny it at all, Cath.
I’m actually thinking of instructing my scientists to look at doing this in cows, sheep, kangaroos or whatever lifestock happens to thrive in various sunny places, and figure out a way of ‘milking’ them of the ethanol.
Imagine: solving global warming and world hunger at a stroke
Great – we can include all nations in the overweight problem instead! Fair enough 🙂
Ha ha! But don’t you see, Anna? It’s self-limiting.
When these PhotoTypes (I prefer that name for them, I’ve decided), get too fat to move, they’ll be stuck inside and won’t be able to go into the sun to ‘feed’. It’s self-limiting!
Unless they are outside and fall over or something, and can’t get up, in which case I can imagine that they’ll simply grow and grow until they burst. Hmm. Messy.
I guess one step towards artificial photosynthesis is to have it work in vitro, an essential step of which was published in Nature (where else!) last week.
This way there would be no use of electricity to power the thing.
What a splendid find, Nicolas. Thanks.
BlacKnight Industries is recruiting.
Well I can’t really take credit for finding it, since I subbed it… Any grammatical or spelling mistakes identified will not win you anything but my enduring admiration.
Heh heh. Now there’s a challenge.
Your admiration comes not lightly.
Hey, I’m a tree frog that subs at Nature, I’m hard to impress 😉
Do I get a prize if it gets into F1000?
I’m sure something could be arranged, Nicolas. Ask Henry Gee about our new range of gifts.
Instead of becoming fat and indolent, the PhotoTypes could develop into something more athletic and intimidating, like the Cactacae of Bas-Lag.
Fwoosh
Sounds a little like Zhaan.
{follows links}
heh heh heh. I love my initials.
Unless they are outside and fall over or something, and can’t get up, in which case I can imagine that they’ll simply grow and grow until they burst. Hmm. Messy.
Like that guy in the restaurant in Monthy Python?
I’ll think you need an alternative outlet, like a smaller generator on the back or something similar. That way you won’t waste anything (you know, being drunk enough, you simply switch and shunt the excess carbs/ethanol to something else… a little container in the back for storage?)
Exactly like that guy in Monty Python.
Battery packs. Not just clean, renewable energy, but storable and transmissible too.
It’s a winner, innit?
Will Black Knight Industries revive the long-abandoned project to get crows to fly underwater?
Alejandro, unfortunately you missed my attempt at tongue-in-cheek humour, there.
Richard- seriously by example reads on Bioinformatics and Evolution to Roderic Page, author of the program Tree View in Nature Preceding
Henry: if we can get more funding, sure.
Alejandro, do you want to head up a division?
Not, only is a comment.
aw, go on.
Richard> battery packs? sorry but going from alcohol to batteries seems out of my scope. Having the alcohol as a carbon source for some newly engieneered bacteria that produce energy however, now that’s a winner 😉
Imagine, a pond of bacteria producing a lot of energy that you can tap into battery packs. Now more power plants as we know them.
The alcohol as an energy source would be inefficient, as there’d be losses associated with the conversion from glucose. Use the glucose directly, I think. Not sure we want to use bacteria in people’s arms/heads, though.
Hmmm I see what you mean Richard, but there may be something to Åsa’s idea too – since there are already cars run by ethanol maybe you could use your “battery” as a fuel tank for your car? Imagine not having to pay for gas ever again…
oooh, yes! A direct feed from to your fuel tank. {doodles}
but Richard, how can using alcohol as energy source be inneffcient if the alcohol is being made by utilising the sun rays as you previously described? I don’t get it. Rather than making exploding people in the sun light, you make the excess go into a pond where it feed the bacteria than prioduce stuff you want ….
then again, I probably have missed like a thousand steps in between (non withstanding that it is a purely hypothetical discussion)
Thanks Anna!! 🙂 An interpreter is what I need!
The photosynthesis would only occur in our skin, right? And skinny people have a higher surface area to volume ratio than fatter people. So it would indeed be a self-limiting system regardless of whether someone has fallen over and can’t get up inside, or outside.
Good point, Cath. Want to be a director?
Åsa, converting from glucose to alcohol is not 100% efficient. You’ll take losses.
Hm, this could be terribly artistic – chlorophyll in the skin grafts – if appropriately applied, a whole new form of “green” (ha ha) body art could arise.
On another forum there was a discussion of “U85” car fuel, made from 85% urine. Eeeurgh. But coupled with your and electrosynthesis ideas… hm…
Richard: ok then. I guess you don’t want my brain storming… (* sulking*) I’m just throwing it out there. But sure if 100% efficient is your goal well…. at least you’ll be looking for quite some time
😉
Ooh! Director of BlackKnight Industries? Cool!
I’m also Scientific Adviser for the Chruch of the Rubber Ducky. And no, that’s not a typo, because it’s not a church.
Åsa, my goal isn’t 100%, but I do want to make the process as lossless as possible. Introducing a further chemical transformation won’t help. Richard, aesthetics is important. Glad you’re on the ball.
Cath, a director. Choose a title.
Boooooo
OK, um, Director of
Junkets and FreebiesMarketing?Goldfish already metabolize glucose into alcohol under hypoxic conditions.
A better choice than rapeseed would be tropical palms that can already grow in sea water and produce hydrocarbon waxes (safer than biodiesel because it is a solid, melt it and it can be pumped and injected). Add sufficient flotation and there could be vast plantations floating in the deep ocean.
Perhaps of yeast species Saccharomyces cerevisiae can be used to make a good biofuel. This specie of yeast is a very adaptable.
Brilliant idea, David. reminds me of a particular SF story, the name of which is escaping me right now.
oooh, yes! A direct feed from to your fuel tank. {doodles}
Do I get royalty? 🙂
I promise!
bq. Cath, that’s brilliant if
you’re Scottishyou just want to get pished, but some of us like to taste our martiniSecondary metabolites. I’ll submit my proposal to BlackKnight Industries later, but it would be an upgrade, and hence higher fees could be charged.
I’ll demand major royalties – nothing less than a crown prince.
Bob, I’ll mark you down for a 10% share of the profit.
Brilliant idea Alejandro! the use of alcoholic fermentation in biofuel and gas generated.
Perhaps of yeast species Saccharomyces cerevisiae can be used to make a good biofuel. This specie of yeast is a very adaptable
In my studies of bats about the excrement I’ve seen that ferments very fast and the smell very penetrating and gases emanating, but I have not yet analyzed which is the bacteria. But is a great potential from biofuel, I sure.
Interesting thoughts. However, we’re too fixated on ethanol as a microbial byproduct for fuel. The clever money would be on long chain hydrocarbon synthesis, for a couple of important reasons.
In my studies of bats about the excrement I’ve seen that ferments very fast and the smell very penetrating and gases emanating, but I have not yet analyzed which is the bacteria. But is a great potential from biofuel, I sure
Thanks for your wisdom father.
It is an honor to teaching my son
That’s my dad.The best.
Wooah. It’s a family affair.
{Laughter}
Either Alejandro’s talking to himself, or somebody’s borrowing his computer.
I like David’s idea of massive, floating palm plantations. If it could be coupled with farms of oxygen-starved goldfish… nah.
Goldfish? How about a food or cash crop?
Either Alejandro’s talking to himself, or somebody’s borrowing his computer
No, Wintlito is my son who wanders by here sometimes.
Wintlito? Is that like Wintle Lite?
heh
So if I understand the news item linked by Richard correctly, we could design bacteria to live in our stomach and produce biofuel by eating grass? Vegans are going to be popular in the XXII century!
I say farm the vegans.
Grant’s all chuffed with himself for hitting the 50,000 comments mark on Nature Network, in case anyone’s wondering what that “heh” was about.
Too bad it was so inane. 😉
Eh?
That’s what I assumed it was at first, but now I see the “heh” is linked to something relevant and on topic. I didn’t see the link the first time.
Bah.
P.S. If anybody wants to move to Ontario, our Provincial government is very in favour of
throwing money atgranting money to researchers working on alternative energies, biofuels, and the like. Plays well at the federal level, too.There’s no national government, though, but that’s okay. All the useful stuff is regulated provincially anyway. I once met a group of Dutch delegates at the consulate in Toronto – they were studying politics in NL vs CA, and they commented that everything they learned about national regulations in Holland corresponded to things at the provincial level in Ontario, and what went on in Ottawa was way too abstract. They were interested in a number of things, of which I remember only sports funding and science outreach. (I was invited for the latter)
Didn’t you hear? All the cool kids are leaving Canadia.
not true
Mwah hah hah. Come and join us, come and join us…
NO!!
I need to stay here and
start a revolutionpolitely protest against the prime minister“politely protest” – Such a Canadian already =)
Of course, it’s worse south of the border, where everything that is important is controlled at the State level – usually in ways completely different than the State next door.
RPG – if you can find me a nice place to stay at, say, Silverstone, or Brands Hatch, I might consider it… 😉
What will you do, Cath? Write politely-worded letters to The Ontario Bugler?
Richard, it’s a small country. You can stay here and drive.
I’ve already exchanged letters of complaint with someone who already agrees with me. And I made pop-culture references in a protest march. What more can I do? I am but one person!
Eva, it’s just a revolution, there’s no need to be
like ScienceBlogsrude.And it won’t be televised.
Not unless it interrupts Hockey Night In Canada, no.
Heh. Of course such a thing could never happen here; nor could we have an unelected Prime Minister cough
Of course, it’s worse south of the border, where everything that is important is controlled at the State level – usually in ways completely different than the State next door
Richard> nooo, not at all. Clearly you jest sir 😉 Joke aside, yes – many important things are on a state level. On the other hand, to defend the south country a bit, they have more people… and less snow and cold weather (my own personal belief why some countries in the north have more centralisation since we all know that alone is cold, two or more is warmer 🙂 )
Wait, so global warming is caused by snuggling?
Wintlito? Is that like Wintle Lite?
Late. Not simply wintlito
eh no… I meant something more about the “centralisation of government and rules” may be more abundant in cold climate countries.(caring about others since it’s hard to survive alone in the snow). Completely without scientific study, I just have that feeling and Canada, Scandinavia fit well into that. Haven’t really tested the theory though 😉
snuggling as a threat to climate change… huh… interesting thought 😉
Well, the tropics don tend to be abut anarchic, don’t they?
Which sort of brings us back to where we started.
‘do tend’. BT suck.
There was more than that wrong with that comment.
/pedantry
Whatever.
good point